See what's wrong with some professional politicians.

[divinenews]

just tell you 3 things
1 you make assumptions of what might have been and was not
2 With what right does the United States become the police of the world?
3 look around you, every day, on the streets.

eufrasiox,

Based on the philosophy of Einstein, my teachers taught me that truth and reality are relative to the position or point of view of the observer. ... Except for some religious truths that I believe are absolute (black or white), my experience causes me to believe what my teachers taught was true: One's truth or beliefs are established relative to their position they are viewing from (their point of view).  This is the basis of moral relativity. In other words, one's personal morals are relative to his situation, unless he holds particular beliefs based on the truths of his God,  ... Therefore, eufrasiox, since I choose to regard you as an honest moral person, I accept and respect your point of view and sincerely consider your points of criticism. I consider both of us honorable men and not blind prejudiced zealots.  

I cannot dispute your three points as being true.
1. Yes, I made assumptions. - I made assumptions about what may have happened regarding the Soviet Union taking over the world if America and its allies had not been positioned in Europe exactly as they were and when they were when the Soviet Union conquered Germany. ... Every teacher/professor or mentor that I have ever had has warned me repeatedly that assumptions are to be avoided in any logical theory. I have warned my own students and those I have mentored to avoid assumptions for all the obvious reasons experience teaches us. 
 ... But, from my point of view, my assumption that the world needed a Superpower, such as the United States and their allies, to thwart the ambitions of what you, in your first post above, called "evil soviets" was a very good assumption, as far as the use of assumptions go. ... In the history of battle and warfare, assumptions are necessary and the leaders of the United States and the British empire assumed they needed to be in Europe in great force before the Soviet Union got too far into Western Europe. My argument in this matter merely supports Roosevelt's and Churchills' assumptions. - Of course, as you imply, they could have been wrong. As for me, in my mind, it is just my learned informed opinion from my point of view. I ask respect for that as you asked respect for your opinions.  

2. Yes, I agree America has no "right" to police the world. - From my read of history, no vote was ever taken by any united gathering of the nations of the world giving America a mandate to police the world. But, just as no consensus of the nations of the world gave the British Empire the right to make the shipping lanes of the world safe from piracy which happened for the first time in history beginning after the final defeat of Napolean, this is what happened to the betterment of the majority of the world's trading nations. And, this "rising tide lifted all boats." At the end of the second world war when the British Navy no longer had the might to protect the major trading lanes of the oceans of the world, the American Navy was there with all the power necessary to take over this role. As for policing the rest of the world as much as America was able to attempt such an impossible task, The United States made some good choices and some bad choices, some in her economic and political interests, and some, unselfishly, in the interest of the ideal of freedom, such as the main financial supporter of its allies and the supplier and trainer of revolutionary movements against totalitarianism until this very day. For example, there would be no Israel if America had not been the first nation to recognize them as a country and later supply them militarily during their wars against invading hostile neighboring countries.  Again, I say that I agree with you that America had no right to attempt to be the world's policeman, and in the process, it made some great mistakes. But, my friend, the truth is as old as the written history of the world, this is what powerful nation-states have always done in their own interest.  I argue that in balance, the world is a better place for America's policying of it because of the growth of the number of democratic nations since it decided to pay the price in blood and treasure to attempt to be the policeman the world has never fully had. ... As for me, in my mind, it is just my learned informed opinion from my point of view. I ask respect for that as you asked respect for your opinions.

3.  And then to respond to your third point, "look around you, every day, on the streets."  - Nowhere at any time have I ever, nor will I ever intentionally defend America as "perfect" in any political or moral sense. I consider politics as a necessary evil for civilization to exist, just as I consider laws, police, and military forces a necessary evil for civilization to exist. The condition of poverty and injustice in America in my lifetime (1952-2019 ) is not there because anyone I have ever met or read about wants it so.  I have read and heard it reported by professional journalism that there are many regimes and ideologies in other countries that want and attempt to enforce poverty and injustice upon people within there nations because of ideological or religious reasons. This even reaches the point of genocidal actions which I am sure you are fully aware of. In the first decade of my life, I and my family knew true hunger and poverty. For years as a boy, I knew constantly what it was like to never get enough food from a meal at home to abate the hunger pains.  My father and mother always had more on their plates than we children had. My father justified it as he needed the extra food to function at his "blue-collar" job loading trucks at a chair factory. If it had not been for government-subsidized meals at school, I think my 4 siblings and I may have died of starvation. At, the age of nine, my father burst a disk in his back lifting and loading the heavy chairs into the trucks. My family of seven people moved into a small two-room shed my paternal grandparents owned. This was the year I came to see the despair of true poverty on the faces of my parents   At this point, he sued the company and received a settlement of $4,000 plus the cost of surgery for his back. After recuperation, he was finally given the $4000 that was owed to him in the settlement. He took that money and next to our shed built a one-room car mechanics shop. To make a very long story short, within two years his hard work and genius brought us into a middle-class lifestyle. Within six years my father was the richest man in the poorest part of our Appalachian hill-billy town. Within ten years, he had sixteen legitimate businesses and another dozen illegitimate businesses after he was approached by several local crooked politicians who had known him since childhood as someone with high natural intelligence, extreme ambition, and proven trustworthiness.  (During these years he finally learned how to read well enough to finish the daily local newspaper. Early on, my mother, who was and is only 15 years older than I, took a 3-month course in bookkeeping and became his accountant.)  

I told you this story, so that you may know why I believe in the system of capitalism, especially the American form of capitalism. My father, born in one of the poorest communities of America, with no formal education (after getting typhoid fever at the age of 7 and falling so far behind in school he could never catch up and had to go to work as a child laborer to support his mother and sister) made it out of poverty into wealth by the time he was 28 years old. He never left his poor part of town but ended up owning a large piece of it before he died in 2004. ... This story is not unique to America. But, what may be unique was that my four uncles and 3 aunts that were all within 6 years of his age from the same impoverished area became millionaires without the help of one another by the time they were 60 years old. And, the one uncle who was the valedictorian of his high school class went on to finish his doctor's degree in law from George Washington University, became a millionaire by the time he was 28, like my father, and today is a billionaire real-estate tycoon. So, it is my experience and observation that hard work that does not ever quit trying has more than a 50% chance of financial success in America. I think that makes America, and any nation that is truly modeled on its design, a better place than the rest of the world when it comes to its citizen's chances of working their way out of poverty.  

In conclusion:
The original American constitution, at the time of its founders, gave its citizens the freedom to make the most of their abilities. In order to give such freedom to all citizens to improve their lives, the opposite also became a logical and practical reality.  In America, a person is also free to fail in life, and many choose to do so through such behaviors as addiction, crime, not taking advantage of the educational system, or simple laziness. Some even choose suicide rather than struggle against the human condition that is common to all people in all times.  ... eufrasiox, I am not saying that there are not many victims of the human condition or of chance (bad luck or timing) in America. I am saying that for those who never quit trying to escape poverty and injustice the odds are very good in America that they will succeed.  

Now, since we have no arbiter/judge regarding our debate that has begun on this forum thread, there is never going to be any final decision reached as to the truth, so my friend, I will give you the final word if you wish to have it and I will say no more.


eufrasiox, I will be sending you a forum/"buddy" request. I hope you will accept my request. I hope to be your formal online forum friend. I am sure there is no one I have ever met who agrees 100% with anyone else in their life. But that does not stop them from working at being friends if they choose to do so.  

With much respect,
Elijah Gale.